Carl Sagan Predicted The Mess 2021 Would Be 25 years Ago 1

Carl Sagan Predicted The Mess 2021 Would Be 25 years Ago

 

Astrophysicist and author Carl Sagan managed to predict a lot of the things the challenges America faces in the year 2021 all the way back in 1995 when he was writing a book published just before his death in 1996. MSNBC's Brian Williams shares the details.

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107 comments

  1. In the 80s scientists doing environmental impact studies of big energy companies identified climate change. The companies did ad campaigns claiming they would switch to clean energy. Instead of investing billions to change they invested millions in politicians.

    1. @Walter Fielding Fall of Communism

      “Sure, maybe these communist countries achieved all these great things, but doesn’t the fall of these countries prove that in the end, communism just doesn’t work?”

      It is true that the fall of communism in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe was a triumph for capitalism. But that happened over a quarter of a century ago, so let’s see what’s happened since.

      Since the collapse of communism, the United States and capitalist powers have attacked and even outright invaded various countries like Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq (again), Libya, and then smaller interventions between. The social democracy in Scandinavia that you all love? The main reason it’s so strong is because communism was literally around the corner. Without communism to blunt the edge of capitalism, capitalists have been free to exploit workers and are continually rolling back labor rights.

      Saying the fall of communism proves it doesn’t work ignores the fact that communism did work. It provided essential services like healthcare and education for free, full employment, rough income inequality, and inexpensive housing with a reliably growing economy. Compared to the instability of capitalism, communism worked far better.

      The only reason communism in the Soviet Union collapsed is the West’s effort to bring it down, the strains of the Cold War with a punishing amount of its GDP on the military, the cost of being an anchor to other socialist countries and movements, Gorbachav’s awful policy failures, and a coup d’etat led by Pizza Hut.

      “Look at that smug piece of…”

      None of these reasons have anything to do with communism itself. On the contrary it proves that capitalism doesn’t work because of how far capitalists will go to crush any attempts at communism.

      As former GDR defense minister Heinz Kessler said, “Sure, I heard about the new freedom that people are enjoying in Eastern Europe, but how do you define freedom? Millions of people in Eastern Europe are now free from employment, free from safe streets, free from health care, free from social security.”

    2. @✯WORKING CLASS HERO✯ Free to actually live their lives. Capitalism hasn’t killed millions of people. Every Communist country had a police state, massive black markets, huge amounts of corruption, the leaders lived in wealth while the poor feared for their lives and had no rights. Stalin killed more people than Hitler and Mao killed more than Stalin. Communism failed because it doesn’t work. You’d rather everyone be poor, I’d rather there be classes where there are poor, but the poor can move up. The average American will die having moved up a socioeconomic class from the one they were born in. Every new piece of technology, art, theology, philosophy, and etc have always been born in areas where freedom and liberty were valued. No Soviet citizen could criticize their own government and nobody had any influence over their representatives. Communism and democracy can’t work together.

      And yes the Soviet Union collapsed trying to catch up to Western military spending, but despite the West out spending the East, education, quality of life, life expectancy, crime rates, EVERYTHING measurable was better in the West. Why did so many East Germans flee across the border when they had the chance? Communism is a failure and was rightfully defeated. It should be thrown into a trash bin and be seen like we view absolute monarchies, an out dated and terrible way to run a country. Communism failed because it took away rights, killed millions, and prevented life from being better. Look at an American car from 1980 and a Soviet car from 1980. Its clear who won and why.

    3. @✯WORKING CLASS HERO✯ So Communists & socialists don’t burn fossil fuels? So non-capitalists are contributing nothing to the climate crisis?

      Seems to me that capitalist countries are the only ones trying to come up with a solution, while the communists allow their state run companies to pollute at will, without consequences.

    4. @Walter Fielding I would argue that the corrupted, perverted versions of both communism and capitalism that we have inherited from ignorant and greedy, past leaders and policy makers, are a far cry from what these ideologies were meant to be. Neither can support a parasitic elite class, with the power to immorally enrich themselves. Conflict of interest and nepotism are rampant at all levels of government. From first principles, a real synthesis of both these ideologies into a true meritocracy is very possible by highly unlikely, human greed being what it is and all.

    5. @Davido Vasquez Everyone is greedy. You can’t stop greed. So you might as well create a system that uses greed the best way possible and capitalism does that.

    1. @Lunar Sovereign “Guard against impostors of pretend patriotism” – George Washington Also, “When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent” – Issac Asimov

    1. @Adam Mackey Smith oh, so he , by himself, gives money away…really???
      So
      In 2014, the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, the part of the NIH headed by Fauci, awarded a $3.4 million grant to the New York-based EcoHealth Alliance, which aims to protect people from viruses that jump from species to species. The alliance has projects across 30 countries, including Thailand, Vietnam and China
      Right wing conspiracy types have lied repeatedly about covid, even Ex president COWARD CADET bonespurs,
      You keep throwing crap, without proof,
      I thought 5g phones caused Covid
      Btw, earth is round

    2. @oltedders
      Or maybe he would be look at them as the same coin but just other side?

      Biden is no better than Trump wake up people.

    3. @Dax Marshall
      He also warning of the authoritarian government that using the media to control narratives!
      That’s Biden and Big Tech. Control by Bill Gates Bezos and Dr Death.

      YouTube? Facebook
      Believe science?

  2. Sagan’s quotes literally gave me chills from how accurately he described what has happened to us 25 yrs. ago. WOW!

  3. Every word in that quote is an undeniable truth of our present state of being. Sometimes I dread being around for the next 20 years, because how badly things are right now.

    1. I agree. I see atlas has shrugged and I’ve been hanging on to hope that this would come to its natural conclusion but I also see that society is expert at engineering ways to avoid consequences. My greatest fear is that this will continue and that my life also will continue.

    2. I tell my younger relatives not to even think about starting a family for the next 10 years.There’s gonna be a whole lotta shaking going on moving forward and it ain’t looking good.

    3. When the chip everyone itll be over. Sudden destruction will come. God is a jealous god. We are his children. We were created in his image and when man keeps doing what they are plannin on doing god is coming so there is no future to look forward. This is the last frontier. The final destination

    4. @Randy Gibbons AMEN. I , for one, WANT to be here. Why miss it? After all i’ve seen , all WE have lived through….

    1. @AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL wholly smoke. Do you still have a mother figure tying your laces for you? How do you even function?

    2. I read that book years ago. Had it in hard cover. Foolishly I let someone borrow it. He never gave it back. I bought another one. But from then on when someone wants to borrow a book I refer them to the library.

    1. Well to say that even in 1995 AFTER Clinton the right of center Democrat he was signed NAFTA , you had the start of FOX , Rush Limbaugh on radio and Newt Gengrich in the House, not a far leap to think of what is coming next.

    2. @David E Thompson I wish I could articulate how many people I have encountered in the Working World who are educated Way Beyond their intelligence. Education has been hijacked and having a degree has been turned into solely a questionable job qualification. I dream of what we could learn and accomplish by tapping into some of the unutilized intelligence of the working-class who haven’t had the same opportunities. Remember suggestion boxes in Corporate America? I administered one of those programs at one point in my life and was astounded by the ideas that were submitted. All of which were quickly reworded and presented as someone in authority’s idea.

    3. @Vicki Roberts What America (and my country Australia) needs right now is a good dose of Democratic Socialism.

    1. @Moon Shoes both support undermining our rights in favor of the military industrial complex. Both quote and support “science” when it’s politically expedient. Both cater to the elites. Neither advocates for you nor I.

    2. @Bob Rice
      I’m referring to science, not “science”, and
      You’re continuing to make an equivocation fallacy.

      Your arguments isn’t convincing in the slightest.

    3. @Bob Rice
      Even if all else was equal, comparing the current president with the last guy…
      Only one of them dismantled the infectious disease emergency response team, lied about the severity of the virus, disregarded the use of masks and distancing, and continued to hold super spreader rallies.

    1. Wait! The Trumpist idiots would say he couldn’t call himself Dr Sagan because he’s not a medic.

    2. I think McDonald’s was about to launch an advertising campaign using Carl Sagan to proclaim that there were billions and billions served

    1. @Robert Luben The difference is I’m wearing my underwear and dragons don’t exist. Two definitive things. I think you may have a different definition of both ‘religion’ and ‘spirituality’ than what they actually are. Regardless, you did exactly what you were stating with religion, it’s heads to the tails of the same coin.

    2. @Soulife Religion is the great divider of the world. Up until the 4th century Christianity was the faith of the oppressed since the Romans took it over it is the Religion of the Opressers. If humanity were the only faith we had we would be a lot better off in this world. Try studying the work of Noam Chomsky and you will find the truth for all.

    3. @Soulife Are you wearing the first and only pair you ever owned mr pedantic? You are right, dragons dont exists and neither do gods which is why I dont need any faith to ignore them. Thank you for remaking my point for me.

    4. @Robert Luben I guess silver lining, I’ve anyone read this far into the thread, you are continuing to act as a beacon highlighting the problem you chalked up to religion. Since you can’t or won’t see them: 1) lack of self awareness. 2) My beliefs are reality, no need to ask questions.

      You kinda mentioned the 2nd. But due to 1, you can’t see 2. I’d say reread everything at face value, but that doesn’t help if you interpret those words through a bias. Maybe that can be #3.

    1. @B White I remember understanding my toddler’s speech when everyone else was mystified. I suppose the same holds true for the Wookie and Harrison Ford.

    2. @Peter McMillan — you don’t have to be woke to realize that white humans are racist against Wookies

    1. @T. R. Campbell Wow, you are the fraidy-cat, so clearly threatened, over here spewing your false claims. The Earth has been warmer in the distant past and the Earth has changed climates in an extremely slow manner, not in the manner humans have caused in the last 100 years. The fact is that humans are causing the “current” global climate crisis and killing off countless species as a result. Go back to Fox fake News. Not interested in your alternative facts.

    2. @Rebecca Henderson You are in science denial and you are not believing solid scientific fact. I will take your word for Faux New. I don’t watch them but clearly you do so I will take your word on that issue. My views are not alternative facts, my views are scientific fact. Look them up if you don’t believe me.
      1.UAH satellite-based temperatures of the global lower atmosphere (Version 6)
      2. Tokyo mean monthly temperatures – 1996 to 2021 no warming, only cooling.
      3. CDAS Sea surface temperature anomaly differences from mean SSTA. Ocean cooling.
      4. USHCN reporting stations with 104 years of data show that 14 of the top 15 years for a record I recorded temperatures were before 1960.
      5. HadCRUT v T4 and UAH v6 do you note global warming pauses.
      Believe science don’t be a climate denier. Actually, this is all good news. It shows that we have been lied to by the corrupt and entrenched political class. Rejoice at this news because it is all good.

    3. @T. R. Campbell Lol! You clearly don’t know how to state facts. Since you are so invested in spewing anti-science claims (when the vast majority of scientists say it is happening) Where are your sources??? You clearly had that list saved to copy & spread around from comment to comment to comment. What are you trying to get here? Do you want me to believe that I am not seeing what I am seeing, not hearing what I am hearing? You are right wing Trump Troll trying to sell BS. Just go away.

    4. @Rebecca Henderson The vast majority of scientists don’t believe ‘it’ is happening as you say. If you are going by the 97% propaganda that was published by Australian John Cook, his assertions have been debunked years ago by scholarly publications as well as those researchers that he mentioned.
      As a pilot I enrolled in a meteorology class and have a certificate in Meteorology. Weather is very different than climate change but it gave me a great deeper understanding of both.
      At best, 43% of actual climate scientists believe that humans may have some impact but they are not sure how much. We go back to the old Chinese proverb that says the earth is forever changed when a person walks barefoot on a beach.
      Your post is about me and this is not about me this is about actual science. Science can prove the claimant is driven by solar, geological and astronomical events. Believe in real science, don’t believe in the political science.

    5. @Rebecca Henderson Perhaps you were seeing the wrong thing or perhaps you are seeing what you want to believe. You might not be able to see clearly the forest because of the trees. There is a mental process known as cognitive dissidents in which a person will not understand a stated fact if it goes against their beliefs.
      You make these wild claims such as me being a “Trump troll”. I never voted for nor did I support the Trumpster. I am a lifelong JFK Democrat and political adviser to democrat candidates and to the DNC. During the last election six out of eight of my Democrat clients one election or reelection to state and national office. My clients pay me a monthly stipend for good advice. I give them logical, factual and scholarly advice on a wide variety of subjects and apparently this suits me well. I am not right wing but I am a dyed in the wool JFK Democrat. My first campaign was for Hubert H Humphrey and I have his autograph picture hanging proudly on my office wall.
      You are hearing fact and truth whether or not you want to believe it. I really don’t care if you believe it but it is fact. Clearly, you are the one with the problem. I am just rejoicing at the good news that I am able to give.

  4. “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”
    ― Isaac Asimov

    1. @Activate Fiasco I can see that you want attention and I am giving it to you. Do you actually have anything to say or do you just feel ignored?

  5. “I’m a conservative christian and I believe in angels and talking snakes, but I need to see more data on climate change. Derp!”

    1. @Pat Murray be exact in your critique. Your words are meaningless. Literally indiscernible from a crying baby. Just name-calling. Try harder. Site specific details. Let me see who you really are.

    2. @NoSkillzDad tell them compassion is a fools path and to worship money and power and you get the modern world we currently have.

    3. @Wigit nah. I’ve studied the occult and psychology as much as religion. I’m pretty well balanced. If I told you what I truly believe/know you wouldn’t understand. Same way an ant can’t grasp an aircraft carrier. Never will.
      It would most likely cause you to have a psychotic episode. The salmon will never see what the eagle does, except when it’s prey.

    4. @Joshua Proctor You actually only needed the first few sentences there. That’s a good point well made.

      I knew it already but I didn’t consider it because I was too blinkered in the moment and only thinking about hellfire and brimstone type consequences for the individual in question. I incorrectly interpreted your comment saying, “no consequences for my actions after I die”, as “”no consequences for my actions FOR ME after I die”.

      Thank you for pulling me up on that. I appreciate it.

      Have a good one. Cheers 🙂

  6. Truth be told, most people in my generation could see this coming, as unfettered capitalism is bound to lead to fascism.

    1. @Steve Bojo It’s all relative, but you do have a point. It’s not as unregulated as it was during the Gilded Age. That was a horror show. Still, compared to much of the EU and other OEDC nations, it is a little less regulated, but it depends on the sector.

    2. @Steve Bojo hahaha no it isn’t. You’re either ignorant or looking to take advantage of people.

      Most regulations are very needed to protect people. Especially when we’re talking about things like construction, fabrication, transportation, food preparation, ventilation, waste management, Wall Street…do I need to keep going or?

    1. @Auburn Guitar you must not have been paying attention, in court Fox News stated that their host “are not stating actual facts, but instead only engage in exaggerations”. Your glorified Fox news legally stated in open court that they promote fact news.

    1. Well to say that even in 1995 AFTER Clinton the right of center Democrat he was signed NAFTA , you had the start of FOX , Rush Limbaugh on radio and Newt Gengrich in the House, not a far leap to think of what is coming next.

  7. Celebration of ignorance really sums it up. This anti-Science movement that’s swept the nation will definitely be our unraveling.

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