Engineer Says Locating Condo Issues An 'Extremely Complex Puzzle' 1

Engineer Says Locating Condo Issues An ‘Extremely Complex Puzzle’

 

An engineer warned there was evidence of major structural damage below the pool deck of a Miami Beach-area condo building nearly three years before it collapsed, according to reports. Greg Batista joins Morning Joe to discuss the potential causes of the building's collapse.

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Engineer Says Locating Condo Issues An 'Extremely Complex Puzzle'

79 comments

  1. If it was my family I would be filling charges against the ones responsible for this building falling like it did killing all these people pancakes falling of a building

    1. Bad State regulations + people didn’t willing or could not paying for maintenance

    2. @Free Gedanken zur Baukunst That’s the major problem. Multiple owner apartment complex’ such as this are run by a board, comprising of many owners and a few paid professionals. Any major repair proposals would be discussed by the board and major outlay would be communicated to all owners for approval. It may well be that there were many objections to very expensive solutions. I’ve seen that where individuals say ” I’ve paid my monthly maintenance fees for years and think you should look into cheaper options”. It’s sad to say that people may not have read the lengthy complex rules and regulations prior to purchase. Such a shame.

    3. Well of course no one knows whose fault it is yet, but some have already filed suit. There will be more to come.

  2. There was a new hotel put up in 2018 next door. There was a demolition in 2016 on the lot followed by construction in 2017 – 18 (use Google timeline). Did this affect the building that collapsed?

    1. And when are we going to stop and say that we’re too overdeveloped? They’re by the ocean, but drilling into the ground can damage the foundation of other buildings inland as well. It can mess with water tables, and how the water flows, creating a sink hole someplace else. We may have to start asking, just because we can do something, should we?

    2. Building high rise building over wetlands is idiotic. Most buildings in Miami area were built on wetlands.

  3. They did not take care of that building very well they just put a bandaid on it and let it go.

    1. The problem with state mandated inspections at fixed intervals is that everyone assumes that these are the minimum required maintenance. I am reminded of the federally mandated level of detergents in gasoline. When that law was passed, some manufacturers actually _decreased_ the amount of detergents in their gasoline because they were _above_ the standard.

    2. Very easy if there are no rules and standards that MUST be met. Republicans don’t like rules and standards. Just ask Rick Scott.

    3. @Ec Brown Don’t have to dream much. This buildings sister building has reported similar cracks in as this one had. The problems are there in the buildings this old, just rolling the dice as to when and which building will have a critical failure again. Doesn’t sound like there is much to be scratching their heads about, they know what critical pieces failed, and mostly likely why they failed and the sad part is that is wasn’t fixed in time.

  4. Sounds like a lot of neglect. Even with how he is talking about it, over 150 people missing who were simply in their homes and when this all clears it looks more and more like a failure to maintain and properly address known issues. The same week we are watching congress pat themselves on the back for infrastructure planning that clearly is coming far too late and will still be wasted on shotty contract work

    1. @diane shelton my point is that building safety is still regulated at some level by government, even at the local level. If building regulation isn’t part of infrastructure I’d say we as a country are in a bad place and probably will see more of this in the years to come

    2. @Maryella Rose Congress doesn’t, but the money the delegate will still make its way into hands of state governments and eventually cities. Localities have responsibilities to oversee building safety just as much as roads which is why we have inspections in the first place. My point still stands, looks crazy to be celebrating infrastructure in the week where two major collapses happened in the country including a pedestrian bridge over a highway

    3. @CHRXMOUSE OR celebrate the fact that infrastructure is FINALLY really hopefully going to be addressed.

    4. @diane shelton if you have to hope that it’ll happen, there is nothing to celebrate. Money will be spent, maybe wait to see how it actually gets used this time before aimlessly celebrating yet another bill in a rich country with crumbling infrastructure yet again

    5. @John Cahill My father works in construction and renovation. Was denied a commercial plaza job as he was undercut $50,000. My dad pointed out they couldnt cover materials cost with that. Sure enough, waste was used as filler and the plaza needed replacement just 1 year later. New rochelle then gives in and hires me dad to do the clean up, foundational repairs, and build this plaza like new with cars still being able to drive through, costing nearly 5 times the original cost. My dad only profited $30k and his years salary was only $40k as he couldnt take on other work.

    1. @Maryella Rose Which is beside the point if the state does NOT have the money to repair or replace the damaged bridge. Do you even know the cost of replacing a bridge? Do you realize that many states don’t even have the money to build new roads hence TOLL roads. Get educated on infrastructure

    2. @ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Do you live in one united country or not. I can just imagin in a European country if your infrastructure was a lottery decided by your place of birth. You folks are nuts. You deserve all that befalls you.

    3. if only there was a couple billion dollar bill ready to go out that could repair infrastructure, ah well

    4. @Crymson Nite easy All must pay at least 15% income tax including top billionaires, millionaires, and corporations

  5. I would like to see someone do a report on the history of the laws on inspections for wether the amount of years have changed or not for these type of buildings.. including by other developers.
    With dates thereof.

  6. The engineer that they are interviewing is proving the fact that Flex Seal is a cheap now proven deadly fix to a major problem. From the salt water it sounds to me every 25 years these rebuilds of rebar are necessary regardless of cost.

    1. you can’t really replace the rebar very easily though and once the rebar is rusted out throughout the interior there is not much you can do.

    2. If it’s just a crack, Flex Seal may be good enough, but he was talking mainly about spalling. The steel rebar gets fatter as it rusts, putting pressure on the surrounding concrete. When the pressure gets too high, concrete spalls (flakes off). Gluing it back doesn’t stop the rust elsewhere and doesn’t relieve the pressure either, it just disguises the problem. As he said, the only real fix is to cut out the rusty rebar and replace it. That’s do-able in small sections, but if it progresses too far, they could be looking at repairing a large part of one or more floors. At that point, the building could be a write-off.

  7. 40 years for a mandatory inspection in a state that gets hit by multiple tropical storms and hurricanes every year is way too long. It needs to be at the very least 15-20 years not 40 especially with the Florida salt water environment.

    1. I live in Southern Ontario. I’m in a nice area, no unusual weather, no giant storms or natural disasters…
      All buildings here need to be inspected every TEN years. Not 40. Not 20. 10 years! And some people have made noise that even that is much too long, as the right damage to a building could destabilize it within a year.

    2. @Mat Broomfield Well, doing it EVERY year is incredibly costly on the district. In my area, they do inspections every 10 years. And any building that doesn’t pass with a high enough score gets marked for another inspection within 1-5 years.

      And I’m not anywhere like Florida with constant sea water, tropical storms, etc…

    3. I heard that the 40 year inspection was in the progress of starting and repairs were set to start soon too

  8. Human “error” = human laziness, greed, neglect and sloppiness. It sounds like this was 100% due to the lack of somebody taking responsibility and not an environmental issue even with the close proximity to the ocean. They have to verify if building materials used were per engineering spec. If not it would be on the contractor for installing it and inspector for not catching it. If it was to spec but failed because the engineering calculations were bad and didn’t meet code then it would be on the structural engineer. If it was reported 3 years ago and nobody heeded the warning or failed to disseminate the report properly then it could be on a whole lot of people. I think the answer will be human failure that allowed corrosion to get in. If other buildings are deemed safe, have little to no corrosion from the elements and are still standing then it would make this building an anomaly. Which is good for the other buildings but very bad for a bunch of people that failed to do their jobs correctly. The costs of this “error” are astronomical. Especially with such great loss of human life. Beyond the pale.

    1. @Robert Sorenson Even if it made sense to blame the PRESIDENT for the building codes in a Republican state, he hardly becomes personally responsible for every grain of sand in America the second he takes office. Let’s wait and see what the cause was before apportioning blame. If it was the inspection frequency, that falls squarely on whomever runs the state.

  9. The condo attached to it I bet that’s cleared out obviously,, I wonder how the other condo residents are reacting

    1. @SeanPat1001 income has nothing to do with staying alive if I was living there I don’t care what income I was on I would be ghost but I’m only speaking for me and not no one else

    2. @SeanPat1001 and those condos don’t look low income lol watch the reports on the building damages and repairs where 3 million that’s not low income lol

    3. Me too. I also wonder why only side collapsed….so weird. So sorry for those innocent people who were taken by this… We live in our homes, pay our rent/mortgage thinking they are safe and this happens… Not fair!!

  10. I’ve never understood building tall buildings on the beach. Seems like just a matter of time Mother Nature and or human error will take them down

    1. See, you can actually build more rooms on a piece of land with finite area by going upwards, e.g. an apartment building. Then, the owner gets to sell or rent more rooms and make more money on their initial investment than if they had only built a one-floor building.

    2. If done PROPERLY, following all safety regulations and construction standards, you can easily make giant buildings on the beach without issue.
      The issue is that America has gutted construction regulations, so companies cut ALL the corners to save a buck.

    3. I had a unit in a 12 story building close by, built in 71 and on the land side of the ICW.
      That building was built like a brick Sh*thouse.
      Salt air, salt water, hurricanes…..Doing fine, even today.

    1. It’s much worse today than back in ’81.
      Locals know to stay away from late 70’s and 80’s built buildings

  11. we don’t need any stinking regulations or inspections! ask any republican. the GOP doesnt want to spend any money on infrastructure

    1. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Framework Bill is on the table and probably will pass any day now. What are you talking about??

    2. @Edge Fan …Hey! NOT all Republicans! It’s really not a political thing anyway. Democrats are the same, if not worse. It’s a sin issue, not a political issue.

    3. I would think over time and the increase in storms in Fla could be a major factor in destroying the structures of buildings.

    4. I love this! Here is what is in the infrastructure bill.
      Free community college– won’t save a bridge or building
      Free historically black college– won’t save a bridge or building
      Make school lunches greener–won’t save a budget or building
      Electric cars– won’t save a bridge or building
      Electric charging stations–won’t save a bridge or building
      400 billion for home care workers– won’t save a single bridge or building.
      In fact, real infrastructure really only accounts for 157 billion or 7% of the bill.
      Do some research.

    5. @Joyful Noise bull democrats are worse. Who is trying to pass a infrastructure bill right now to fix our bridges and roads before anymore collapse? and who is blocking it and won’t raise taxes on the rich to pay for it and once again want all us poor or middle class people to pay for the rich people that own companies and use the roads and bridges that make them rich. it may not be all repuklicons but it’s enough of them, I would say 75% to 80%.

  12. Mika needs a re-look, but what is sad is that the building should have been condemned when they noticed the deep concrete slab under the pool damaged. They are professionals and they know what can happen when the main support of a tall building has been compromised.

  13. It sounds like this was preventable. Having this knowledge, the proposed $9 million would have saved over 159 lives.

  14. Remember this the next time a Republican tells you regulations are bad and we should simply use thoughts and prayers

  15. Florida residents wondering “Are they safe?”
    You have a governor literally trying to murder you with COVID. Of course you’re not safe. RUN!!! NOW!!!

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