Parallels Between Gun Rights Debate And Virus Debate | Morning Joe | MSNBC

The U.S. seems resigned to preventable firearm deaths. It appears that the same is starting to happen with fatalities from the pandemic, writes NYT opinion writer Charlie Warzel. Aired on 05/07/2020.
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Parallels Between Gun Rights Debate And Virus Debate | Morning Joe | MSNBC

92 comments

    1. @james Givens all Trump followers should immediately go back to work, and attend Trump rallies without masks. Y’all should take your hydroxychloroquine pills and inject disinfectants every day.

  1. I spent two tours in Vietnam were there number of deaths every day were reported to the American people. Over the last 20 or so years, we’ve been hearing about the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s seems if it’s not happening the people Americans know personally, they are not concerned with the death rate. We now have an all-volunteer military where the people serving are some of our better young people. However, they tend to be from the lower economic families. I’m sorry to say is that Americans don’t care about other people getting shot whether in the military or out. They don’t care about people who die from diseases unless it’s people they know. Caring about the rest of humanity seems to be something was lost along the way. I was willing to put my life on the line for my country because I was raised buy the World War II generation. That generation gave everything to the war effort whether they were in the military or not. I just don’t understand what’s happened to this country. It was happening before Trump. He is just a glaring example of the problem. It’s always me first.

    1. Wasn’t the cause for the war fabricated by the US government? I’m pretty sure you were taking part in an illegal war. But as the US does not recognise war crimes of their own personal you couldn’t care less, I guess.

    2. ​@Ashley That is an over simplification. LBJ used the Gulf of Tonkin Incident as a reason for the US government to give him war powers. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident was a mix-up by the U.S. Navy which thought it was attacked when it was not. The mistake was not corrected or was corrected and ignored there is little confirmed evidence either way. However, the USA was in the war in a small way prior to that under JFK and LBJ was carrying on. The real basis for the war was the Domino Theory which was the fear that the communists AKA the USSR would conquer the world one small country at a time and that North Vietnam was a communist puppet. They weren’t and there is a long history of the USA not understanding other country’s culture and history. That is another long story. However, after WWII, France was giver back it dominion over Vietnam as Vietnam was a former colony of France’s. Ho Chi Min was the communist leader that drove France out of the northern half of Vietnam. The USA thinking it was better than France and learning nothing from France’s experience, took over to role of the French, at least the part where it was fighting the communists. The USA supported dictators in the south of Vietnam, as it has partnered with dictators in other countries, to fight communism. It’s as if no government was too evil for us as long as it wasn’t a communist government. The government of the United States misunderstood the entire situation and I believed what my government told me prior to going to Vietnam. That changed very early on. My reason for the rest of my service in Vietnam was my effort to see as many young soldiers come home alive as possible.

      You are wrong on two counts. We were there at the request of, what was at the time, a “legitimate” government and that government was being attached. I really don’t understand the term legal war. All war is a crime against humanity. I think the world is better off because Hitler was defeated. The methods used to defeat him were, in many cases, war crimes. All that aside, our involvement was not technically an “illegal war” and technically is the only way a war can be legal.

      I actually stopped any war crime I knew about prior to its happening. I knew and reported others that had happened. I held a fairly low rank and put myself in jeopardy by doing so. My reports were ignored. The only way I could stop a war crime was to threaten to report the crime and make sure the person about to commit the crime knew I would push the issue and that that person was close to my rank.

      “War crime” is an oxymoron. All war is a crime. The term bothers me. However, there are specific actions that the World Court considers to be war crimes. I never engaged in any of those actions. The crimes I could stop were corpse mutilations, the taking of dead enemy’s ears. That was much more than most 19-20 year-olds could do. Human beings do not have all the brain development necessary for the complete integration of the concept of human rights prior to attaining an age of 25. Why do you think the vast majority of soldiers are several years younger than 25? I am now in my 70’s and can look back at many things I screwed up. However, my guilt feelings over surviving the war and what my country did in the war left me 100% disabled by the age of 50. It took years of therapy, several stays on psych wards { one of 3 months under suicide watch}, a suicide attempt that almost succeeded, and several series of electroshock therapy to bring me to the point that I can now safely live alone. Please don’t accuse me of what you know not.

    3. @Lisa Twitchell simple question: where are the WMD in Iraq? And now you where looking for nukes in Iran. Covid19 stoped those advances. Now Venezuela.
      If you don’t notice a pattern there is no reason for you to use the internet.
      I really don’t need a history lesson cause my education was pretty good. US voters are responsible for the suffering around the world.

    4. @Ashley You are just reiterating what I said. The United States would be far better off keeping its nose out of other countries business, for the most part. Now, if you just want to fight about things, pick somebody else.

  2. Well when you brainwash people into believing that owning a gun is part of your “freedom”, there’s something very wrong with your society….check where in the world you have this many fatalities due to mass shootings in a non-war situation……(everything in your country seems to be geared towards playing people off against one another…..I would soon drop te “U” in USA and start refering to your country as “States of America”…..aka SOA………..)

    1. @J. Lo that’s odd, most other democracies managed just fine without it’s citizens feeling the need to be armed to the teeth..maybe if you are so very frightened of encountering a government that you need a militia to counter, you should probably try making better choices of those you elect into power, like the current abomination sitting in the White House, weird that you haven’t used your precious 2nd amendment to remove that threat to your country yet!

    2. These people who behave in such a ridiculous way with their guns have nobsllsorresosctfof life!

    3. These gun slingers who think they are manly and courageous are not only stupid but pathetic. Are you going to shot the virus? It is about time these idiots wake up to the 21st century. The John Wagne days are over.

    4. in551125do. You win the internet forever. Your first sentence is the most outlandish thing I have ever read in my entire life.

  3. Grown “men” playing Rambozo the clown. Fat boys are wearing plate holders with NO PLATE. Just a bunch of CoD cosplayers. A firearm is NOT A PROP. It is a tool of destruction. These poser’s are a liability to gun owners.

    1. @muuuuuud The Chinese are wasting their money on you, but then again they probably don’t pay you f-all.

    2. @Terry C Send me the quote and links to where Trump instructed anyone to use Lysol. I’ll bet you $1,000,000,000 you can’t. I’ll wait.

    3. @Roger C trumpists all say cnn, msnbc are the mainstream media yet they all flock there and OAN which is basically state run propaganda.

    1. Tony Smith
      Ok, then God’s going to pop a can of disasters on humans. Either way the human race is a failed experiment.

    2. @Molly Jo Simmons yes he is much WORSE is coming we both agree! Matthew 13:40-42 & Psalms 91:8 we will watch the retribution of the wicked GOATS!

    3. @Molly Jo Simmons those of us who thrive while 10, 00 fall before my eyes! I shine while the world will curse God. Matthew 13:43 & Psalms 91:9-11 hallelujah Shine shine shine

    4. Mark and Cathy Nickerson-No balance will ever be found, in any equation, if the figures are too far left, or too far right.

  4. In a sad kind of way there are elements of American society that have never gotten over 2 powerful images from their past – slavery and the cowboys of the Old West.

    1. @Christina Reynolds I’m sorry for your fear. America is dumping heaps of food due to poor management. Brazil has a lunatic for a leader. Look at the rest of the world – they are opening up after a relatively short time of isolation because of good government management who care about their people.

    2. @Becky Messer *TRUMP* is going to start civil unrest???
      Have You Read The NYT “1619 Project?” That’s going to throw gasoline onto the racial fire.
      *PS – Not Trump’s Doing*
      (also… learn to spell. You’re an embarrassment to the uneducated Americans everywhere)

    3. @Becky Messer I understand and share your concerns.We can hope that the polls are correct and over 60% of the people want a change in government. Btw, it looks like the women are the smart ones in the polls. Fingers crossed for sanity to return to America. I have lovely friends over there and I’m praying they will stay safe.

    4. @Phouc Gugle muslim omfg im dumb founded with your lack of logic you must be American fearing the big bad boogie man or peoples of difference

    5. @Becky Messer The leftist media has already started civil unrest. Haven’t you seen the protests?

    1. Rethuglicants: Knuckle dragging mouth breathing conspiracy theory believing demented religious right wing TRumpftt loving dimwits…

    1. @Katherine Perkins You”ll have to figure it out for yourself. I’m not getting paid to babysit trumpists.

    2. muuuuuud no answer then? Nothing to back up your accusation? Why did you make it then?

    3. @Katherine Perkins I don’t have to do your homework for you or make your gears turn, it’s your existence, you’re responsible for what you do with it. If your position still satisfies you then remain there. I gave you the tools so you could grow of of it, its your turn to use them or not. Btw if this can clarify anything for you, i’m a libertarian, just fiercely antiauthoritarian even if it comes from my side.

    4. muuuuuud that isn’t how that works. You accuse someone of something and refuse to give a single example then you where pulling your accusation out of thin air. If you accuse someone of something then it is your obligation to provide an example in order to prove that you are not simply lying. Smugness doesn’t help your case, it simply demonstrates that you don’t have one. People who have nothing to say resort to “educate yourself” as a diversion to avoid backing up their own statements.

    5. muuuuuud And if you really are a libertarian then I applaud you but msnbc doesn’t share that with you. Your personal liberties aren’t a priority of theirs as evidenced by this video alone.

  5. You can’t expect Trump to wear a mask, just imagine how embarrassing it would be for him taking it off and suddenly half of his face is orange and the other half white. He may not care that he sounds like a fool but look like a fool this way he will no doesn’t matter the cost. He can wear Goggles because he is already white around the eyes:)

    1. Freedom is earned and fought for and not taken for granted. My Grandfather and father fought in the war to keep what is happening here from happening. I heard tells of the German war and how they walked around with guns and anyone who disagree got shot. Well so far that hasn’t happened Yet! Or has it? And their very fine people.

  6. GOP promotes a Lack of community for “special interests”: religion, violent guns, polluters, and the greedy who want government resources sold off cheap

    1. @efs 1066 My gun has never been violent. It was stealing my car and going to Taco Bell at 2 O’clock in the morning. I now lock it in my safe.

    1. @David Goldman Authoritarianism leads to failure, massacres and monsters, no matter if they come from the left or the right.

    2. @Seán Ó Máille so sorry Sean but Scandinavians do not refer to themselves as socialist!!! indoctrination! this time it will be a new kind of socialism, yeh right

    3. @David Goldman You are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts. Check out list of parties in Denmark for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Denmark
      Even conservative parties in my own country Ireland, would be described by Americans as “socialist” with free health care for children, the elderly and the unemployed and low-income people. Most Europeans vote for a type of social democracy that would be seen to be the left of the American Democrats.

  7. The Republicans and the Democrats have “LOCKED HORNS” in a fight to the death. Soon the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, will be no more and the remains of what could have been THE GREATEST NATION ever will “LAY IN THE SUN BLEACHING”. The DEATH OF AMERICA is the result of a “LACK OF COORDINATED EFFORT”. RIP AMERICA, you could have been great.

  8. Notice how trump says they are good people, just frustrated over the situation..
    However when taking a knee, he said they were bad people..
    🤔.. so this is one of his 6 go to cognitive distortions. This one is called fundamental attribution error.. when others do something you don’t like, cut you off in traffic, it’s because they are horrible peoole, you attribute the behavior to them personally, however when you do it, you cut someone off, it’s because of a situation, in your blind spot.. here trump likes what they are doing so he justifies it by the situation..
    His lemming base followers can’t recognize this, they just want more kool-aid..
    It’s all about cognitive distortions for this guy, his admin, all GOP and fox conspiracy channel..
    SMH

  9. There’s no Constitutional right without responsibilities, meaning reasonable limits. Yet the Rambo wannabee extremists whine that all limits are “tyranny.” In Michigan, the morons brandished military-style firearms attempting to intimidate legislators in the state capital building of all things.
    I trained on the M-16 in the military and enjoyed weekend target shooter much of my life, but this NRA-promoted politically-tinged right wing gun extremism has to stop.

    1. The slow destruction of the Department of Justice is happening right before our eyes and the real crime is good Americans do nothing.
      What has happened to my America.

    2. @J Hutch 2A a constitutional amendment, not a belief. I occasionly use it in criminal defense, but of course it is very narrow and is limited by legitimate, strict state and federal gun laws.

  10. This crisis has showed why certain people shouldn’t own a fire arm. If you don’t have the sense of when and where to display a weapon of death, you do not deserve to own one.

    1. I had a boss…..a really jumpy & weird guy, who decided he wanted to own a gun. I was horrified because I could just imagine him hearing footsteps behind him, whirling around and shooting a friend…. I talked him into buying pepperspray first. The 1st day he had the pepperspray, he was in his office fiddling with it… it went off. The pepperspray got into the air vents and the whole floor of the building had to evacuate. My boss covered the orange stain on the wall with a picture so nobody would see the evidence that it was him.
      He’d be perfect in this administration.

    2. Nobody ‘needs’ to own a gun. Especially the military.
      We need to own PPE. And spend scarce world resources on Health Care.
      The world closed down for a health scare. Showing they ultimately do care about lives. But why have stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, when there use will end human involvement with the world altogether

  11. I refuse to believe this is the “price we pay for freedom.” This is the price we pay for unchecked capitalism and corruption.

    1. shamala pretty high incredulity to compare a resource rich, technology rich, and a world politics influencer like our America to the poorest of countries, which is pushed to stay that way by us. I guess the proof point of poor education and lacking the development to have critical thinking faculty… just shows… time and time again. Whenever we fight for human progress for American citizens, we have to face the hordes of misinformed netizen brainwashed by extremist views

    2. Exactly my dear and we don’t need to give up now and forever @Rochelle Thomas,hope you doing well so far?

    3. Exactly spot on. The powers that be, see their portfolio going down, so while they sit comfortably at home and are protecting themselves; they are pushing the serfs to go out and get back to work.

    4. @shamala — And of course, you know, that Venezuelan people would NOT be “resorting to eating cats and dogs for survival” , if it was not for American sanctions, which we imposed on them, for the very purpose of making Venezuelan people to suffer hunger and be forced to eat “cats and dogs”, and overthrow for us the democratically elected government, of Maduro, so we could put there in power, our puppet “president” Guaido, whom we already anointed in Washington as the new “president” of Venezuela, because he will let us to rob the Venezuelan people of their oil, while Venezuelan people will still be starving, because we have no other intention to overthrow the government in Venezuela, but to rob and pillage the country, just like we do it to Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, or Syria, which we invaded and occupy the North of Syria, where we are stealing Syrian people’s oil. (perhaps I should use the official “explanation”, why we ILLEGALLY invaded, and are still occupying Northern Syria, and say, that “we are in Syria protecting Syrian oil wells from Syrian people”..while stealing it. Hahahaha…. I love politics! It’s so incredibly funny, because of all this stupid lies… Great fun indeed.

  12. US citizens STILL claim they ‘don’t have a king’! They call their president ‘sir’; they cannot charge anyone in that capacity of any crime much at all, and the ‘justice’ is politically skewed; they are actually so pathetically sycophantic to someone they perceive is ‘in authority’, ie the president, that they do what that group of health professionals did – stand dangerously close to each other without protective PPE from a deadly virus. This is an INSANE society. On one hand it ‘bleats’ about ‘freedoms’; on the other it allows the most corrupt and unscrupulous system to continue unabated.

    The CIVILISED world moved on from ‘kings’ a very VERY long time ago. The CIVILISED world looks upon its duly appointed representatives as its Servants – ie a ‘public servant’ performing a ‘public service’ NOT a ‘leader’.

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